I hope your friend pulls out okay, Kitsune.
Let us know how all that turns out, ya?Drunk Drivers
Re: Drunk Drivers
I wish karma was more reliable...
I hope your friend pulls out okay, Kitsune. Let us know how all that turns out, ya?
I hope your friend pulls out okay, Kitsune.
Let us know how all that turns out, ya?-
Teranfirbt
- How Funky Strong?
- Posts: 4523
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:57 am
- Location: Beaver Creek, OR
Hmmm, you get a DUI once and you get your license marked as such, forever, and the letter on your car... you do it again and you get your license revoked, forever, no ifs, ands, or buts... you kill someone while drunk and its jail time/death row... the law shouldnt pussyfoot around with drunk drivers... as emotional beings that can get tired we are barely ready for the driving itself.. if you add alchohol to the mix you're just asking for trouble.
I really need a new sig....
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Portland %#!&ing OregonDeacon wrote:I don't think my birth canal can handle it
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
-
Alex
- Redshirt
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:48 pm
- Location: San Jose, CA (I have returned....)
I just kinda wish that people would take a goddamn designated driver when they plan on drinking. It's not that hard to be one either, just execute some fucking self-control. I've lost several friends to drink driving accedents, none of which should have happened. I understand that what's done is done but the cops should take much greater steps to dicourage drinking and driving.
1) Station a squad car and officer outside of every major pub in the city or have them patrol it at least.
2) If someone is caught drinking and driving, you tear up their license, they lose the privelige of having a license for the rest of their life and the cop calls a tow truck to give the offender a ride home and permenantly impound the truck.
3) In the case of a death, the officer should have every right to put two .40's between their eyes. PLAIN. AND. SIMPLE.
1) Station a squad car and officer outside of every major pub in the city or have them patrol it at least.
2) If someone is caught drinking and driving, you tear up their license, they lose the privelige of having a license for the rest of their life and the cop calls a tow truck to give the offender a ride home and permenantly impound the truck.
3) In the case of a death, the officer should have every right to put two .40's between their eyes. PLAIN. AND. SIMPLE.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inablity of the human mind to correlate all of it's contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should travel too far.
-H.P. Lovecraft, "Call of the Cthulhu"
-H.P. Lovecraft, "Call of the Cthulhu"
In NZ, we have the interesting combination of the legal drinking age being 18, and boy racers being the latest fad. Obviously this does not end well, and its surprising that there aren't more killed (not that I want them to, I'm just pointing it out).
Just a few points (I'll let you make up your own mind about them).
1. As I said, the legal age is 18. This has had the follow-on effect of police finding down to 11 and 12 year olds drunk on the streets. (And I'm not talking one-off occurences either). Personally, I don't see this as a good thing.
2. Because of our 'have a few beers, she'll be right' culture, theres still a tendency for drunk drivers to be given sentences leaning towards leniency. In my own opinion, if you choose to get inebriated, you are responsible for any and all consequences of any acts taken while while in a state which you willingly chose to be in. A wordy opinion, true, but this IS the rants forum
.
While I've been lucky not to lose anyone close to me in this way, a good friend of mine had an ex hit while crossing the street (and yes, she was on a crossing and had the green, traffic camera caught everything). He arrived at the hospital just in time to hold her hand as she died . No sentence given a drunk driver is ever going to compensate for that experience... but I hope they keep trying to find one.
Accer wrote
Just a few points (I'll let you make up your own mind about them).
1. As I said, the legal age is 18. This has had the follow-on effect of police finding down to 11 and 12 year olds drunk on the streets. (And I'm not talking one-off occurences either). Personally, I don't see this as a good thing.
2. Because of our 'have a few beers, she'll be right' culture, theres still a tendency for drunk drivers to be given sentences leaning towards leniency. In my own opinion, if you choose to get inebriated, you are responsible for any and all consequences of any acts taken while while in a state which you willingly chose to be in. A wordy opinion, true, but this IS the rants forum
.While I've been lucky not to lose anyone close to me in this way, a good friend of mine had an ex hit while crossing the street (and yes, she was on a crossing and had the green, traffic camera caught everything). He arrived at the hospital just in time to hold her hand as she died
. No sentence given a drunk driver is ever going to compensate for that experience... but I hope they keep trying to find one.Accer wrote
That goes for me too.I hope your friend pulls out okay, Kitsune. Let us know how all that turns out, ya?
Rules of Grimwatch No#31: If it's not on fire, it's a software problem.
[quote="Teranfirbt";p="227257"]Hmmm, you get a DUI once and you get your license marked as such, forever, and the letter on your car... you do it again and you get your license revoked, forever, no ifs, ands, or buts... you kill someone while drunk and its jail time/death row... the law shouldnt pussyfoot around with drunk drivers... as emotional beings that can get tired we are barely ready for the driving itself.. if you add alchohol to the mix you're just asking for trouble.[/quote]
This is pretty much my thinking on the subject. The problem with drunk driving is proof our system is out of whack... when you've got people with 4+ counts driving around. I've of the same mind that with your second conviction, your license gets revoked.. permanently.
What Grimwatch mentions about the mentality of "give her a few beers and it'll be all right" in NZ is pretty much the same here in the states. Folks drink beer like it was water. A lot of folks see beer as something you have to have to get by, like some folks view coffee or cola. Going to a bar after work and kicking back a few brewskis is seen almost as an inalienable right. And, of course, driving is viewed as a right here, rather than a priveledge... just look at all of the senile old farts on the road that barely know what planet they're on, let alone what street. To make matters worse, a lot of people overestimate their driving ability when sober, let alone when impaired.
Some of it is people just like their alcohol too much. Far too much importance is placed on the so-called "merits" of getting drunk. You've had a GREAT day! How do you celebrate? By getting wasted! You've hat a ROTTEN day... how do you console yourself? By getting wasted. Getting drunk isn't viewed as the undesirable side effect of too much alcohol... it's the whole freaking reason some people go to a bar. When you get the stomach flu, you're miserable... curled on the floor, puking your guts out. But, go to a party and get so drunk that you're curled on the floor, puking your guts out, and that's the sign that you had a great time??? Talk about masochistic.
Personally, I think bars should have maxium limits. You hear of places with a two drink minimum, but what about a 2 drink maximum? Bars are out to make money, of course, so this would never fly. But there's no law of nature that says you have to allow people to get wasted. It'd be nice if bars would do a better job of assessing when people are having too much. Oh.. but that's Big Brother.. trying to get all up in your business and tell you what you can and can't do. Listen, pal.. if you can't have the responsibility to NOT drive after getting schnookered, you're obviously not qualified to decide what you can and can't do.
Finally, I think one thing that might deter drunk driving, if only marginally, is to stop selling beer already cold. Where does it say that beer should be sold in such a way that we can take it to our car and have it ice-cold only minutes after buying it? That's what coolers are for. If you're going to have pizza and beer for dinner tomorrow... plan ahead. We're too fixated on personal convenience. <whine> But if I can't buy it cold... I have to wait! I don't wanna wait! I don't WANNNNAAAA! Waaaahhhh! At least if you couldn't buy a case of frosty cold beer, Bubba and Maynard might have less of a chance of kicking a few back on the ride home.
This is pretty much my thinking on the subject. The problem with drunk driving is proof our system is out of whack... when you've got people with 4+ counts driving around. I've of the same mind that with your second conviction, your license gets revoked.. permanently.
What Grimwatch mentions about the mentality of "give her a few beers and it'll be all right" in NZ is pretty much the same here in the states. Folks drink beer like it was water. A lot of folks see beer as something you have to have to get by, like some folks view coffee or cola. Going to a bar after work and kicking back a few brewskis is seen almost as an inalienable right. And, of course, driving is viewed as a right here, rather than a priveledge... just look at all of the senile old farts on the road that barely know what planet they're on, let alone what street. To make matters worse, a lot of people overestimate their driving ability when sober, let alone when impaired.
Some of it is people just like their alcohol too much. Far too much importance is placed on the so-called "merits" of getting drunk. You've had a GREAT day! How do you celebrate? By getting wasted! You've hat a ROTTEN day... how do you console yourself? By getting wasted. Getting drunk isn't viewed as the undesirable side effect of too much alcohol... it's the whole freaking reason some people go to a bar. When you get the stomach flu, you're miserable... curled on the floor, puking your guts out. But, go to a party and get so drunk that you're curled on the floor, puking your guts out, and that's the sign that you had a great time??? Talk about masochistic.
Personally, I think bars should have maxium limits. You hear of places with a two drink minimum, but what about a 2 drink maximum? Bars are out to make money, of course, so this would never fly. But there's no law of nature that says you have to allow people to get wasted. It'd be nice if bars would do a better job of assessing when people are having too much. Oh.. but that's Big Brother.. trying to get all up in your business and tell you what you can and can't do. Listen, pal.. if you can't have the responsibility to NOT drive after getting schnookered, you're obviously not qualified to decide what you can and can't do.
Finally, I think one thing that might deter drunk driving, if only marginally, is to stop selling beer already cold. Where does it say that beer should be sold in such a way that we can take it to our car and have it ice-cold only minutes after buying it? That's what coolers are for. If you're going to have pizza and beer for dinner tomorrow... plan ahead. We're too fixated on personal convenience. <whine> But if I can't buy it cold... I have to wait! I don't wanna wait! I don't WANNNNAAAA! Waaaahhhh! At least if you couldn't buy a case of frosty cold beer, Bubba and Maynard might have less of a chance of kicking a few back on the ride home.
-
Martin Blank
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 12709
- Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 4:11 am
- Real Name: Jarrod Frates
- Gender: Male
- Location: Dallas, TX
- Contact:
You're trying to regulate behavior in that case. And what counts as a drink? If I have two beers when I'm at dinner, I'm a lot better off than someone who had two shots of tequila on an empty stomach. And what if I want a giant margarita? Some places make 40oz margaritas. Two of those can really mess a person up, or the person can be basically fine if he's had a large meal and is a large person.
Beer that has been warmed and then rechilled has a bad taste and loses its texture. It's more temperamental than soda is.
When I drink, it's usually because I feel like having a drink. Or two. Or three. Hell, I've drunk two bottles of wine in one night (call it about eight glasses of wine). I didn't drive anywhere; I knew I wasn't going to be able to. Personal and legal responsibility.
I can certainly see the point in coming down harder on those who are caught. Keep in mind that there's a difference between someone caught driving at .08 and driving at .15. Many people are perfectly capable of driving at .08, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. That's a fair amount of alcohol, though -- the normal line represents it as four beers on an empty stomach in one hour for a 170 pound person. When most people drink, it's spaced out over time and includes food. While I sympathize with your losses, Alex, permanently removing one's ability to drive -- and hence earn a living for most people -- on any first offense is too harsh. Everyone makes mistakes, and someone who gets pulled over for missing a turn signal on an empty road and is found to be right at .08 shouldn't have that kind of punishment.
A lot of establishments are taking extra care of their patrons now, because they're at risk of being sued. They're more willing to stop someone who has had a bit too much, and are willing to use bouncers to hold them there until a cab (or a cop, if necessary) is called. There are some places that don't care, but they're fast shrinking.
Some call for a cop outside of every pub or bar. In 2001, there were more than 95,000 pubs of one kind or another in the UK alone (78,000+ in England and Wales, 17,000+ in Scotland). The manpower just isn't there. It all comes down to everyone who is willing to drink or to serve drinks being willing to recognize when the line is crossed.
Beer that has been warmed and then rechilled has a bad taste and loses its texture. It's more temperamental than soda is.
When I drink, it's usually because I feel like having a drink. Or two. Or three. Hell, I've drunk two bottles of wine in one night (call it about eight glasses of wine). I didn't drive anywhere; I knew I wasn't going to be able to. Personal and legal responsibility.
I can certainly see the point in coming down harder on those who are caught. Keep in mind that there's a difference between someone caught driving at .08 and driving at .15. Many people are perfectly capable of driving at .08, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. That's a fair amount of alcohol, though -- the normal line represents it as four beers on an empty stomach in one hour for a 170 pound person. When most people drink, it's spaced out over time and includes food. While I sympathize with your losses, Alex, permanently removing one's ability to drive -- and hence earn a living for most people -- on any first offense is too harsh. Everyone makes mistakes, and someone who gets pulled over for missing a turn signal on an empty road and is found to be right at .08 shouldn't have that kind of punishment.
A lot of establishments are taking extra care of their patrons now, because they're at risk of being sued. They're more willing to stop someone who has had a bit too much, and are willing to use bouncers to hold them there until a cab (or a cop, if necessary) is called. There are some places that don't care, but they're fast shrinking.
Some call for a cop outside of every pub or bar. In 2001, there were more than 95,000 pubs of one kind or another in the UK alone (78,000+ in England and Wales, 17,000+ in Scotland). The manpower just isn't there. It all comes down to everyone who is willing to drink or to serve drinks being willing to recognize when the line is crossed.
If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there.
Ggrav's great suggestion:
Breatholizer at every Bar.
In Seattle, at least, you CAN get free rides home, and your car will be able to stay parked as is for free, if you call and need a ride home.
So, just put a breatholizer in every bar, and have anyone who's going to drive blow into it. If they're barely above the limit, keep them at the bar for at least an hour, and give them a cup of coffee to stew over.
Anyone who isn't, call in a free ride.
Oh, before anyone asks, if Grav remembers correctly, the free ride system is funded by a charity, not taxes.
Breatholizer at every Bar.
In Seattle, at least, you CAN get free rides home, and your car will be able to stay parked as is for free, if you call and need a ride home.
So, just put a breatholizer in every bar, and have anyone who's going to drive blow into it. If they're barely above the limit, keep them at the bar for at least an hour, and give them a cup of coffee to stew over.
Anyone who isn't, call in a free ride.
Oh, before anyone asks, if Grav remembers correctly, the free ride system is funded by a charity, not taxes.
-
daemon princess
- Redshirt
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:34 pm
- Location: Seoul, South Korea
- Contact:
[quote="daemon princess";p="228094"]gravity, if you ever run for president, you've got my vote.[/quote]
I dunno, I like electromagnetic's "no tentacles" policy.
Anyway, drunk driving is one of the things that really pisses me off. I don't personally drink, but I have several friends who do and they all manage to do it fairly responsibly. (Designated drivers, don't drink too much, that kind of thing.) If you're going to go to a bar and get wasted, you should plan ahead and ensure you don't have to drive. Worst case scenario, pass out in the back seat of your car and wait for the morning.
I agree with Martin: you can't ruin someone's life at the first offense. Yes, there should be penalties, but they can't be permanent. Note that there are already penalities for actually causing harm with a car (motor vehicular homicide, reckless endangerment, like that). So simply being caught drunk driving should have penalties, and causing harm while being drunk should raise penalities in addition to that.
Personally, since "three strike" laws seem so popular in the US, I think we should move over to something like that. First offense, you lose your license for 180 days, $2000 fine (or fine relating to blood alcohol level or something), and you must take and pass a course relating to proper alcohol consumption or something. Second offense, you lose your license for a year and get a $10000 fine and have to retake the original course. Third offense, you're out, and you lose your license permanently. Offense with a revoked license and you're put in jail for 2/5/10 years depending on how many prior offenses.
The idea is to provide an incentive to drink responsibly and not to drive drunk. Maybe bars should be obligated to ensure that drivers hand over their keys after a certain number of drinks or take a breathalyzer test before being allowed to leave with keys. Drunk driving - for any reason - annoys me. While some people may be able to drive safely at 0.08 blood-alcohol level, I think in this case that we as a society shouldn't allow people to find out the hard way that they are not one of them.
I kinda liked Penn and Teller's take on it: "Instead of driving drunk, get a knife and kill someone. At least then you can choose who you kill." (They didn't get to make that public service announcement, though - they had to stick with the tamer "if your friend is drunk, steal his keys. And while you're at it, steal his wallet. He won't notice - he's drunk!")
Condolences to KitsuneMusume and the best of luck to her friend.
I dunno, I like electromagnetic's "no tentacles" policy.
Anyway, drunk driving is one of the things that really pisses me off. I don't personally drink, but I have several friends who do and they all manage to do it fairly responsibly. (Designated drivers, don't drink too much, that kind of thing.) If you're going to go to a bar and get wasted, you should plan ahead and ensure you don't have to drive. Worst case scenario, pass out in the back seat of your car and wait for the morning.
I agree with Martin: you can't ruin someone's life at the first offense. Yes, there should be penalties, but they can't be permanent. Note that there are already penalities for actually causing harm with a car (motor vehicular homicide, reckless endangerment, like that). So simply being caught drunk driving should have penalties, and causing harm while being drunk should raise penalities in addition to that.
Personally, since "three strike" laws seem so popular in the US, I think we should move over to something like that. First offense, you lose your license for 180 days, $2000 fine (or fine relating to blood alcohol level or something), and you must take and pass a course relating to proper alcohol consumption or something. Second offense, you lose your license for a year and get a $10000 fine and have to retake the original course. Third offense, you're out, and you lose your license permanently. Offense with a revoked license and you're put in jail for 2/5/10 years depending on how many prior offenses.
The idea is to provide an incentive to drink responsibly and not to drive drunk. Maybe bars should be obligated to ensure that drivers hand over their keys after a certain number of drinks or take a breathalyzer test before being allowed to leave with keys. Drunk driving - for any reason - annoys me. While some people may be able to drive safely at 0.08 blood-alcohol level, I think in this case that we as a society shouldn't allow people to find out the hard way that they are not one of them.
I kinda liked Penn and Teller's take on it: "Instead of driving drunk, get a knife and kill someone. At least then you can choose who you kill." (They didn't get to make that public service announcement, though - they had to stick with the tamer "if your friend is drunk, steal his keys. And while you're at it, steal his wallet. He won't notice - he's drunk!")
Condolences to KitsuneMusume and the best of luck to her friend.
Re: Drunk Drivers
California has something of a "4 strikes" policy... get caught drunk driving for a 4th time, and it's a felony.
They shouldn't drink AT ALL!dmpotter wrote:Designated drivers, don't drink too much
Grav IS a designated driver for her friends, and has been so for many, many years. There's a high alchohol consumption rate in the area where Grav lives (aka: everyone gets smashed as often as they can), so Grav has always said that she would drive anyone home, no matter the circumstances, if they ever gave her a call.
Yes, this included Grav driving illegally without a license quite a few times. But Grav is actually a decent driver, and definitly better than any of her friends when drunk. Especially since Grav NEVER drinks. She HATES the taste of alchohol.
Unfortunatly, her friends weren't drunk when they got hurt, one killed, the guy they swerved to miss was.
-
Teranfirbt
- How Funky Strong?
- Posts: 4523
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:57 am
- Location: Beaver Creek, OR
[quote="gravity";p="228268"]
They shouldn't drink AT ALL!
She HATES the taste of alchohol.
[/quote]
I'll agree to that.... That's part of the reason I won't drink.... The rest is a cost thing... I see how much my dad spends on beer in a month and think "wow... that could pay for my gas for a month"
They shouldn't drink AT ALL!
She HATES the taste of alchohol.
[/quote]
I'll agree to that.... That's part of the reason I won't drink.... The rest is a cost thing... I see how much my dad spends on beer in a month and think "wow... that could pay for my gas for a month"
Last edited by Teranfirbt on Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I really need a new sig....
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Portland %#!&ing OregonDeacon wrote:I don't think my birth canal can handle it
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
When I went to Germany, I didn't drink, as I don't normally care for it, and anything but sake does weird things to my intestines. The other members of the group I was with went nuts, hitting the bars almost every night. About halfway through the trip, I became a moneylender, as I was the only one with sufficient funds for food and souveniers, with dough to spare. So, I lent money that was to be paid back in the states at a dollar-to-mark rate. So, a 20-mark loan got me $20 when we returned, which was a pretty handsome exchange at the time.
I also saw this when I was at field camp in Montana. I didn't lend any money then, particularly since most folks were from other states and I was never likely to see them again. But they hit the only bar in town almost every night. About halfway through field camp, they were calling friends and family up in need of money.
That's one thing I never quite understood.. other than as a testament to the excessive importance placed on beer.... how folks will look at their funds and figure they can live off of canned tuna and ramen for a whole week for the sake of making sure they've got enough for beer. Conversely, folks at camp also got excited about finding a brand called Schmit which was about $1.25 for a case of 24. If you're gonna tie one on, it might as well at least be good beer, rather than Sam's Wholesale brand beer that you can get a keg for about a nickel.
I also saw this when I was at field camp in Montana. I didn't lend any money then, particularly since most folks were from other states and I was never likely to see them again. But they hit the only bar in town almost every night. About halfway through field camp, they were calling friends and family up in need of money.
That's one thing I never quite understood.. other than as a testament to the excessive importance placed on beer.... how folks will look at their funds and figure they can live off of canned tuna and ramen for a whole week for the sake of making sure they've got enough for beer. Conversely, folks at camp also got excited about finding a brand called Schmit which was about $1.25 for a case of 24. If you're gonna tie one on, it might as well at least be good beer, rather than Sam's Wholesale brand beer that you can get a keg for about a nickel.
-
Teranfirbt
- How Funky Strong?
- Posts: 4523
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:57 am
- Location: Beaver Creek, OR
Yes. my dad drinks the crappy beer as well... i dont understand how he can drink that watered down crap...
I really need a new sig....
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
Portland %#!&ing OregonDeacon wrote:I don't think my birth canal can handle it
Just Beat It, Beat It
No One Wants To Be Defeated
Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight
It Doesn't Matter Who's Wrong Or Right
They have something like this in....I think it's Alberta....where the police display your car in a public place with a boot hanging from the antenna if you're caught DUI. I don't know it it's had any positive effects though.Just make it so if you are caught for drinking and driving, you have to forever have a big "D" on the back of your car or something.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest