Wolves; Alaska; Hunting...

siriansenemy · Post by **siriansenemy** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:34 pm

Let me say this: we humans are the dominant species on this planet. We expand, kill, cultivate, pave, and build to demonstrate that. I don't care if some Tropical Four-Winged Guinea Gnat goes extinct in the rainforest. All I care about is if I am able to pursue happiness, get an education, and have a family. If I have to kill off a few species of animals to do that, I will. Frankly, animals are lesser creatures, and unless they are providing me food and such necessary sustenence, I don't care if they go extinct. If a logging company has to cut down half of a forest to give me the shelter over my head, by all means do it. If any of you in this forum are tree-hugging hippies that think all of this is wrong, you shouldn't own a computer, you shouldn't live in a house, you shouldn't eat meat, and you shouldn't be educated, because all of these consume these "precious" resources.

Look, I could care less if all the wolves in the world die off, because some other predator would take the wolves' place. Nature can bounce back no matter what we do. Has the ecosystem fallen apart because the Dodo is extinct? Hell no. So, all of you tree-huggers, get off your high horse and complain about something that is actually worthwhile. Complaining about how a hunter shot a damned wolf is nothing but baby drivel to me and many other of us in here and around the world.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:44 pm

[quote="AlexanderBarca";p="238883"]Pardon me for interjecting, but weren't the wolves there first? Aren't we the ones invading their lands?[/quote]
First of all, the land does not "belong" to the wolves. Secondly, they haven't been there since the beginning of the known universe, either. It's this thing called change, and it seems to happen whether you like it or not.

As far as this goes, I think a mass wolf hunting to "thin out the population" is wrong. If wolves "attack" you, by all means, defend yourself. However, I don't think that kids should be playing in woods by themselves if parents know that wolves are about. Couldn't that problem be solved by not leaving your baby unattended and not letting your children play in a dangerous area without supervision?

And...what about your backyard with a dog on its chain? Is that a "dangerous area"?

Beast · Post by **Beast** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:47 pm

[quote="siriansenemy";p="238911"]Let me say this: we humans are the dominant species on this planet. We expand, kill, cultivate, pave, and build to demonstrate that. I don't care if some Tropical Four-Winged Guinea Gnat goes extinct in the rainforest. All I care about is if I am able to pursue happiness, get an education, and have a family. If I have to kill off a few species of animals to do that, I will. Frankly, animals are lesser creatures, and unless they are providing me food and such necessary sustenence, I don't care if they go extinct. If a logging company has to cut down half of a forest to give me the shelter over my head, by all means do it. If any of you in this forum are tree-hugging hippies that think all of this is wrong, you shouldn't own a computer, you shouldn't live in a house, you shouldn't eat meat, and you shouldn't be educated, because all of these consume these "precious" resources.

Look, I could care less if all the wolves in the world die off, because some other predator would take the wolves' place. Nature can bounce back no matter what we do. Has the ecosystem fallen apart because the Dodo is extinct? Hell no. So, all of you tree-huggers, get off your high horse and complain about something that is actually worthwhile. Complaining about how a hunter shot a damned wolf is nothing but baby drivel to me and many other of us in here and around the world.[/quote]
"He who tugs at ONE part in nature, finds it attached to the rest of the world."
Congrats on being an ignorant fool, BTW.

Seriously, you can't have it both ways. You don't mind the wolves hunting, but you mind humans hunting wolves. If wolves can hunt, why can't people hunt?

If you had bothered to maybe, read my posts, you would have learnt that there is a difference between how wolves hunt (for survival) and how humans "hunt" (mostly for the sake of killing). Please please use your brains please.

Imperator Severn · Post by **Imperator Severn** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:52 pm

So, the people who live in this settlement, who hunt moose because they want to eat, are wrong to kill off competition, whereas the wolves, who are hungry for the same meat, are completely justified?

Let me put it this way- if it is wrong for humans to hunt, and it is wrong because humans and animals (or at least wolves) are equals, why is it alright for wolves to hunt? They don't HAVE to live in Alaska. They could all go to the Cities to live off garbage, thus freeing themselves of the terrible burden of having to kill moose.

Fixer · Post by **Fixer** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:03 pm

Wolf meat doesn't taste great, but it can be tasty if you marinate it right.

furre · Post by **furre** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:11 pm

[quote="peter-griffin";p="238723"]Hey furre, you're not allowed to eat food anymore, understand? NO MORE FOOD. I'M SHUTTING DOWN YOUR SHOPPING CENTER AND EVERY SHOPPING CENTER IN A 250 MILE RADIUS.

So now that I've taken away your food, you probably want it back. But if I won't give it back, you're probably going to want to get rid of me. And that's the case here.[/quote]
Hey peter-griffin, no it isn't. See, while I've never been to Alaska, I'm sure their food doesn't consist solely of moose. And in case you somehow missed it, the wolves in question haven't/aren't going to kill and eat EVERY single moose in Alaska. So it's more like you MIGHT raise the price of moose meat, which I don't give a fuck about seeing as I don't like the way moose tastes.

peter-griffin wrote:If the wolves aren't to blame, and the villagers are just getting stupid, then if it gets proven to them, they're wrong. If they go out and kill wolves and still can't find moose, then they'll know they were stupid. So let the problem solve itself.

Okay, let's have an example of the same kind of logic:
peter-griffin wants to go to the movies. He thinks his friend A has a movie ticket. Friend B says that A doesn't have movie tickets and that peter-griffin should go and buy tickets on his own. peter-griffin decides to not listen and kills friend A only to discover that friend A didn't have movie tickets. peter-griffin realized he's stupid and proceeds to go buy movie tickets.
Wouldn't it be nicer if peter-griffin didn't kill friend A and just went and got his tickets at the theater instead?

peter-griffin wrote:I'd much rather see a wolf die than a moose. My dog fought off 2 wolves before being killed by the rest of the pack. This was 100 feet from my house, and the wolves came after my dog and myself totally unprovoked. They didn't bother coming after me, because I returned with my old Nagant and shot myself down another 2. Wolves aren't even indegenious to my area, and I'd only seen them three or four times before, so its not like they're competing for food. My dog was black and white, longhaired, and only medium sized. These wolves dwarfed my dog. They weren't attacking to protect themselves, and they didn't look hungry. They attacked with no visible reason. Granted, not all wolves are the same, and they stereotypically don't attack unprovoked, but this time, they did.

A chicken once scratched up my arms pretty bad. And if one of them did it, they ALL want to. The same goes for rabbits, by the way.
A black man once called me a cocksucking buttfucker. That MUST mean all black men hate me, and therefore we should kill them all.
This other guy once kicked me pretty badly, therefore, I hate everyone. It was completely unprovoked too, I might add. No visible reason why he wanted to hurt me.
This arab-person on TV flew two airplanes into the WTC in New York, let's nuke the entire middle east!
I'm sure your dog deserved it, because all dogs are vicious killers. A dog bit me once!
Kill every species that has ever hurt you in any way, really a fascinating piece of logic you've got there.

peter-griffin wrote:Wolves are NOT gentle. They are well evolved killing machines.

OMGOMG w0lfz r predatorz?!?!?!!?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!111shiftoneoneone

peter-griffin wrote:Wolves are usually 200+lbs with extremely sharp teeth and will chase you, peaking at usually 32mph, for hours on end.

Not true. Wolves can run at speed of 25 to 35 miles per hour for short bursts of time while chasing their prey. Not hours on end.
And wolves weigh 85-115 pounds, sometimes up to 130. Not 200+.

peter-griffin wrote:It isn't your friend, it's not your companion, so get over it.

I completely agree. Let's kill all predators we can't domesticate properly. Or, wait, neither chickens nor rabbits are predators. Fuck it, let's kill all living things. So much easier that way.

Phong, the wolves don't exactly pose a threat to the moose population.

dmpotter, I wish I had a wall like that.

dmpotter wrote:we're helping the wolves by hunting them. See, by removing the weakest members of the wolf pack, we're helping select out the bad wolves and helping evolve the wolves. So hunting is a good thing, see?

Shooting a perfectly healthy (possibly the alpha male of a pack) is getting rid of the weakest? Nope, sorry. Can't agree with you on that one. If the hunters went after the wolves with spears, then we're talking. Of course, that would also involve getting rid of the weaker hunters. But if you want to make an omelet, you got to break some eggs.

Fixer, well put.

But what is "too much"?

Deacon wrote:And why are you even posting on an internet forum? Aren't you aware of the amount of electricity you're using that stripping our precious mother nature of her resources and polluting the environment? You're going to harm the wolves!

And why are you here? I thought there were more important things to worry about? EVERYTHING was more important, in fact. You keep telling people to read your posts, maybe you should too?

siriansenemy, please tell me you're joking and that you're not 10 years old?

siriansenemy wrote:So, all of you tree-huggers, get off your high horse and complain about something that is actually worthwhile.

Oh enlighten a tree-hugging hippie such as myself what I should aim my attention and complaints to, oh wisest of whatever-you-would-call-yourself.

Deacon, I assume the land belongs to you? The house/apartment you're sitting in hasn't been there since the beginning of the known universe, yet I'm pretty sure you'd kick my ass (which probably isn't too hard) if I tried to move in. What if I just shoot you and move in, Would that make it okay?

siriansenemy · Post by **siriansenemy** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:01 pm

No, I wasn't joking about my previous post. I was, however, demonstrating how ridiculous an argument sounds when you blow things out of proportion. This is how 99% of tree-huggers sound. Killing a few hundred wolves is not going to end life as we know it. And you want to know something better to worry about? Try our own human race. The furry little animals should take an immediate back seat to the well-being of the human race, but tree-huggers constantly impede on this by saying we can't kill this or cut down that. Those things you say we can't kill could go to feed hungry people. For Christ's sake, people eat dogs in China, and it's a delicacy! Your hearts should bleed for the millions of starving children in Africa, not the endangered furry creatures. At least your complaining would be going towards a reasonable problem.

And Beast, you call me an ignorant fool, but you provide no basis for calling me that. I think you're the ignorant fool for thinking this is some end-of-the-world problem. I'm not hearing about it on the news, there isn't fire and brimstone coming from the sky, and I don't see my life being affected by it. Face it: nobody really cares, and there isn't anything you can do to make them care.

EDIT: Oh, and Beast, you have no fucking idea what hunting is all about, you uneducated prick. I am a hunter, and I do not do it to go out and kill. I do it to be out in nature, to relax, and to get myself some meat that isn't pumped full of growth hormones. Every single hunter I know either butchers all their game and has meat for the whole winter, or they donate it to Hunters for the Hungry. It's people like you who will eventually take my right to be able to enjoy hunting away. It's one of the few past-times that you can actually get away from everything and not be confined by the trappings of the modern world.

Beast · Post by **Beast** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:11 pm

I have NO problem with hunting for food. I'm fine with what you are doing. Chill out a bit allready

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:12 pm

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:25 pm

[quote="Beast";p="238915"]"He who tugs at ONE part in nature, finds it attached to the rest of the world."
Congrats on being an ignorant fool, BTW.[/quote]
Nice. So anyone who doesn't share your fanatical and extreme love of nature and refusal to believe it's possible for any animal to be a problem or threat is an "ignorant fool"? You win!

Please please use your brains please.

http://www.firekite.com/store/misc/pics ... kettle.gif

[quote="furre";p="239029"]Okay, let's have an example of the same kind of logic:
peter-griffin wants to go to the movies. He thinks his friend A has a movie ticket. Friend B says that A doesn't have movie tickets and that peter-griffin should go and buy tickets on his own. peter-griffin decides to not listen and kills friend A only to discover that friend A didn't have movie tickets. peter-griffin realized he's stupid and proceeds to go buy movie tickets.
Wouldn't it be nicer if peter-griffin didn't kill friend A and just went and got his tickets at the theater instead?[/quote]
WOW that's a horrible analogy...

Kill every species that has ever hurt you in any way, really a fascinating piece of logic you've got there.

:sigh: He said he doesn't have much sympathy for the wolves because he has experience with wolves being a problem and killing animal members of his family, as household pets often become. gg hyperbole.

Not true. Wolves can run at speed of 25 to 35 miles per hour for short bursts of time while chasing their prey. Not hours on end.

Your friend "Beast" says otherwise.

Deacon, I assume the land belongs to you? The house/apartment you're sitting in hasn't been there since the beginning of the known universe, yet I'm pretty sure you'd kick my ass (which probably isn't too hard) if I tried to move in. What if I just shoot you and move in, Would that make it okay?

Nope, you'd be arrested and, hopefully, bumraped in jail.

Edit: Please check the sizes of the images to which you link. Images nearly 800 pixels wide are inappropriate. -- Martin

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:32 pm

[quote="Deacon";p="239159"][quote="Beast";p="238915"]"He who tugs at ONE part in nature, finds it attached to the rest of the world."
Congrats on being an ignorant fool, BTW.[/quote]
Nice. So anyone who doesn't share your fanatical and extreme love of nature and refusal to believe it's possible for any animal to be a problem or threat is an "ignorant fool"? You win![/quote]

It would seem in his first post that Beast points out that THESE PARTICULAR WOLVES he's talking about are neither a problem nor a threat except in the abstract.

siriansenemy · Post by **siriansenemy** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:26 pm

They may not be a problem now...but what happens when their numbers double because there aren't hunters controlling the population? They begin to encroach on human settlements. Then small children are at risk, livestock are at risk, and it poses a major safety issue. You know, and just because they're killing them in one area, doesn't mean all of the wolves are being killed. I don't see a big deal being made about domesticated dogs being killed in China for food. I don't hear the big outcry about that, so what's the big deal? Wolf pelts can be very helpful, especially in that area of the world. The pelts could be given to Inuits or other people living in primitive situations for clothing and insulation. But, Jesus man, wolves are cuddly little puppies like the ones you buy at the store, they are, like it has been said before, killing machines that have evolved over millions of years to become proficient. And, let me pose this little tidbit of fact to you: humans are not the only creatures that kill for reasons other than food. Take, for example, ants. Ants will systematically invade and decimate other ant colonies if they get too close to each other. It has been said that if ants possessed nuclear weapons, life as we know it on earth would have ended millions of years ago.

StruckingFuggle · Post by **StruckingFuggle** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:53 pm

A: Necessity != food.

B: So when the wolves become a problem, then begin to kill them until the problem stops. It sounded to me like what Beast objects to, and what this thread is about, is going above and beyond the natural (and justifable) keeping of the wolf population in check by hunters.

(my opinion:
The only time it is justifiable to take any sort of life is out of necessity. Don't kill someone for no reason, for something they might do, or for something they have already done. Kill a person only if it is necessary to prevent them from doing something not yet done.
As for animals, kill them only from necessity. Like humans, if it is necessary to kill them to stop them from doing something, or to further your survival - if you've no clothes, kill a wolf for the pelt, but if you've already got enough pelts, it is no longer necessary (and no longer justifiable) to kill them for the reason. Same with meat, if you need the meat, go ahead, if not, do not waste the wolf. If you must kill for protection, kill when it attacks, to stop its attack. Not because it might attack at some later date.

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:06 am

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Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:12 am

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