Wolves; Alaska; Hunting...

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:55 am

Awesome argument, Fuggle. I'm not sure whether to laugh or sigh, so here's both:

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:06 am

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:29 am

Pointless flamage removed. -- Martin

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:57 am

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:17 am

Dude, you're taking potshots at the most moderate, informed, reasonable person on the boards. (And the admin, to boot.) If you feel that strongly about humanity overburdening the ecosystem, why don't you join the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?

I may find Wolves attractive, and I might draw images of them engaged in sexual activities, and I might have empathy for their suffering and understand that they feel the loss of their loved ones just as humans do, and I may believe that ALL creatures want to live or at least die for some good reason, and... oh... I see now... because I love them, and have the nerve to stand up for them, I am in contention with you... a person who views human beings as better than all other creatures and who has no compassion for any suffering other than human. There's the connection. Silly me! But it still does not invalidate the reasoning of my arguments.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:17 am

[quote="Ebonlupus";p="239463"]I'm the author of wolfrivals.org.[/quote]
What about tailhole.org?

Is someone pretending to be you to slander your name, or do you admit to the contents therein?

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:39 am

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Phong · Post by **Phong** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:43 am

I only know that you are a sicko and an extremist. Sorry, but your human, and canines are not people, they are animals, sorry to burst your bubble.

Being a furry is one thing, you take it an entirely disgusting step further.

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:51 am

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Salvation122 · Post by **Salvation122** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:51 am

[quote="Ebonlupus";p="239508"]By the way, did you know I'm a Wolf?[/quote]

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:52 am

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.

Phong · Post by **Phong** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:53 am

[quote="Ebonlupus";p="239514"]

I haven't taken "pot shots" at anyone. I have been disrespected a little by Deacon, however - he's a flamer, not a moderator - bah! He can't moderate himself, how can he be expected to moderate others? If I were kicked by him I would even be more of a success!

I am a member of vhemt - I will never comit the sin of bringing another human life into this world. For this, my place in heaven is assured!

I strongly support vhemt's cause - only wish it could come about before the earth is ruined forever by human population, indifference, vanity, and greed.[/quote]

I'm glad, this way your genes won't ever be passed along.

Ebonlupus · Post by **Ebonlupus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:56 am

This forum is just for flamers and trolls. I have better things to do. Take care.

dmpotter · Post by **dmpotter** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:04 am

[quote="Ebonlupus";p="239525"]This forum is just for flamers and trolls. I have better things to do. Take care.[/quote]
Says the guy with clearly extreme views. (Your soul is that of a wolf, huh?)

Although I agree that this thread is pretty much over - neither side is going to bend on the issues. The thread needs locking to prevent the flamage from continuing. There's nothing useful to discuss any more. The "wolf" people are never going to bend on the wolf hunting issue and those in favor of allowing the hunting are never going to see this with the same outrage the pro-wolf people are.

So this is just pointless flamage at this time. I'm out - there's nothing left to discuss. (And Martin, I thought I was being rather flamey the entire time - I guess it's just relative.

)

Post by **Martin Blank** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:20 am

[quote="Ebonlupus";p="239463"]Sport hunting is an unenlightened self-gratification in violence and suffering - there is no purpose in it other than to serve a murderous ego.

What does living in Oregon have to do with this?[/quote]
Sport hunting is a bad thing. I agree. I don't have a problem with hunting for food, even if it is not strictly necessary. I brought up the Oregon point because being so far out, you may be less aware of the actual happenings than an Alaskan, and especially those from McGrath. While I do not question your feelings on it, I tend to attach more credence to those who are closer to the situation. For example, I am more likely to trust someone from New York to tell me what being in a Nor'Easter is like than I am to trust the weatherman from Los Angeles who has only read about it and seen footage transmitted from the area.

It sets a precedent and other hunts are scheduled. It won't stop at 40 Wolves.

Anything sets a precedent. It depends on where a limit is placed. There has been mention that there are other hunts scheduled, though I have not seen anything from the Alaska government sites nor in the main news that backs that up (mind you, Alaska's Fish & Game site is a bit muddy on pretty much every subject, and my computer right now is so slow it would take me hours to get through it).

You may see 40 wolves being killed... it would mean more to you if it were 40 humans.

Yes, it would, but then I, like most people, place the lives of humans above the lives of animals in most cases. I don't like to see things like this happen, but on occasion, they are necessary. In California, where I live, we have mountain lions (called pumas in some other places), and they live relatively close to society, but stay in the wilderness for the most part. They number between 4000 and 6000 throughout the state, and for the most part are left alone, hunts being authorized only for single cats and only when they have done some kind of damage, usually by killing livestock, or when they have threatened or attacked a human. These hunts could be called 'precedent setting' in the proper light, but they're carefully controlled, and while I hate to see a cat killed, I put it into the context that they were becoming a danger to the humans.

My personal delight is the tiger, especially the Siberian tiger. I love them. They're beautiful and majestic, and hunted for all the wrong reasons. Unlike wolves, though, they are solitary creatures, meaning their cubs have no support once the mother is gone. I am deeply saddened when I think that these creatures may be gone for good in the wild in a few years. For the most part, they live away from human society, but are still hunted. This is, to me, a crime. But for those that venture too close or who do not move on when human society draws near, and develop a taste for people, even they must often be brought down. Unarmed humans are easy prey for the most part, and animals go for the easiest kill.

The human population is unsustainable for the earths finite resources. Where does humanity move to when it's destroyed all it's options.

This has been said for most of the last century now, and we still manage to keep up. We can currently feed about 10 billion people, and will probably be able to feed about 15 billion people by 2020, if memory serves. The UN has recently found that human fertility levels are dropping; at one time, we were expected to be above 12 billion people by 2050, and the current expectations are to be around 9.3 billion people. By 2100, the population may have dropped back down to 8 billion people. The trend we see in developed nations, where the fertility rate is around 2.1 children on average per female of child-bearing age (a little more in some, less in others) is catching up around the world; in Japan and in much of Europe, the fertility rate is well below the replacement rate.

What purpose is this superior intellect if people refuse to use it?

I suppose it depends on one's perspective. I don't have a personal belief that we as humans have any one purpose short of procreation for survival of the species, the same as all living things. Our brains, however, developed as they did mostly as a result of changes in our diets that resulted in more fats and proteins going to brain development, and in a particularly competitive environment with other hominids and various animals, the intellect grew sharper over time.

Now, what we do with that is a different story. I'm one who believes that humanity can advance itself and keep the planet in good condition. I don't automatically buy into every theory that comes down, but I also keep my mind open. For example, I think that global warming is probably about as solid as the theories of a coming mini-ice age that were around in the 70s and early 80s. At the same time, I think it is prudent to take some steps to lessen CO2 output because of the other beneficial effects it may have, including less smog and radioactive materials pushed into the air.

You don't think Wolves can love do you? You don't think they will feel the horror and the pain of loosing their mother?
And you, sir, are making presumptions about me that have nothing to do with reality. I just lost a family dog at the age of 12 years. The 11-year-old dog left behind, who has never known life without the older dog, has been in an emotional slump for a month now. I've been around animals my whole life, and I'm well aware of the emotional bonds which they can make between themselves and with others outside of their social groups.

Have you ever known a dogs love and dedication to members of his "pack?"
Well, not unless you count the St. Bernard that wouldn't let anyone he didn't know and approve near my for the first five or six years of my life, or the other four dogs I've had, all of whom have, at one time or another, placed themselves between me and a perceived threat.

It's not all of the townspeople. There's much more to this than just McGrath... there politics and legal precedents at work here to undermine protections.
It never is an entire populace. Groups that large (McGrath is about 400 people) just don't all see eye-to-eye in every situation, especially divisive ones like this. I've seen what the legislature did, and what the governor has allegedly done, to overturn the prior votes by the residents of Alaska. In California, what they're doing would be almost impossible, though I don't know what kind of limits are in place on Alaska's legislature on legislative overturns. Perhaps this provision should be added to the state constitution? In most states, even if the leglislature wants to overturn something, it has to go to the people for approval.

So you think might makes right? Do you believe that because the Germans were stronger it was ethical for them to commit genocide against the Jews? Do you believe that because the robber has a gun the victim deserves to get shot?

I left this to the end because aside from making little sense in the context of the rest of your post (which was very poignant and well-written), it is also downright offensive. Even after I have made two posts condemning people for personal attacks, this comes up. You have been here on this forum now for a few hours at the most, and yet you question my views in such a way as to make me have to walk away from the keyboard for a few minutes. You don't know me, you don't know who I am, and I imagine you have read little of my posts here. If you did, you would know that my viewpoints are the opposite of what you have posted, that I do believe in morals, and that I do take a great deal of offense in the mere suggestion that I may share those kinds of views. I have been civil and on-topic in this thread. There was no reason whatsoever for you to bring those kinds of words in here, and I would be greatly appreciative if you were to take them back.

Real Life Forums

Wolves; Alaska; Hunting...

Who is online