Religions (I do need this info (Statistics))

Rembrandt Q. Einstein · Post by **Rembrandt Q. Einstein** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:45 pm

Azurain, usually I've found you to be very lucid, articulate, and on of the forumites I respect the most on these forums, but this is pretty ridiculous. You blame the institutuion and the religious philosophy for the actions of those that have twisted it to their own wills. Islam is no different than christianity, and many other religions in that it was created in a different time, and as such should not be strictly interpreted due to contextual issues.

I mean, I understand what you are saying, but Islam merely layed a foundation for what is going on, and mind you it layed several other foundations, but the one of oppression and ignorance is the one various governments have seized and molded to their whims in an attempt to control their people. Just like guns don't kill people, Religion doesn't cause hatred. The Islamic religioin (as christianity has been used in the past) is being used as a TOOL. Like any tool it can be used to help, or to hinder, it is purely at the whim of it's controller. A hamemr can help to build a house, or it can be used to bash someone's skull in, it all depends on how it's used. Given proper interpretation, it can provide many different things, from practical mind control, to moral enlightenment, just like almost any religion.

That said, I'm not sure how to classify my religious beliefs, I choose to look at religion as a purely spiritual guide, rather than a physical manifestation of "God's will". There are an almost infinite amount of problems when you try to literally interpret out of date, and often contradictory/hypocritical scriptures, i.e. "and eye for an eye" was actually intended to promote justice, so that an action was met with a proper reaction, it has now been twisted to mean basically that revenge is A.O.K. If anyone knows Rufus' speech in Dogma, that's exactly how I feel, it's always better to have ideas than beliefs, as ideas can change. I'm a weak atheist in that I'm not sure if there is a god, but regardless of that I try and live my life by christian principles because I feel the lay down a solid moral groundwork, not because I'm afraid I'll go to hell if I don't. I believe strongly that this is a result of my religious upbringin, Congregationalism. It's a Prodestant religion that basically believes in (almost) complete forgiveness and tolerance, it encourages one to seek what they believe works the most for them, and to tolerate what others believe as well...within reason. I'm not going to go around forgiving a murderer, but nor am I going to get uppity about some "Islamic infidel". I do, however, get uppity about the fact that many Islamic sects encourage the degredation of women, and also that Catholocism ecourages the degradation of Homosexuals. Basically I have a severe disdain for anyone that doesn't think for themselves and realize they are following an outdated philosophy. actually, let me amend that to "I have a severe disdain for anyone that does not think for themselves".

Also, on a technical note, by definition, any religion that is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ is a christian religion, that includes Catholics and Prodestants (I'm not sure about Mormons). One of the main dividing points is that Catholics feel Jesus WAS God, whereas Protestants feel he was the Messiah, the SON of God. And Jews feel he was an important prophet, and are still waiting for the Messiah. Obviously, there are other bones of contention, some have been ironed out, some have not (such as the Act of COmmunion, Catholics believe it is actually the blood and flesh of christ, while Protestants feel it is metaphorical). These distinctions are mainly based on Luther's original contentions of the church he nailed to the door.

I have thought about looking into Buddhism a few times, but I'm really happy with my current religious state, although I am looking into meditation.

Bjarni Herjolfsson · Post by **Bjarni Herjolfsson** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:52 pm

I don't realize how silly that statement is. All "Islam Governments" are very inconsistant with Islam.

He can't read the Quraan, first of all. It was originaly written in Arabic and all version of the Quraan in other languages are lost in translation. My teacher complains how The House of Spirits by Isabele Allende is lost in translation and it can be easily understood by children. If a book as simple as The House of Spirits is lost in translation, how can a book that appears to be divine (If you have proficient understanding of Arabic and you read the Quraan, you would think that even if it was divine it could no be translated) be interpreted from a translated version?

As for your last argument Deacon, why the hell would I listen to you about my own religion? The accepted mainstream belief is that those 4 are the best interpretations are the best and there are very few others that are accepted. People who dissent are people like Bin Laden. Deacon, are you supporting Bin Laden?

Rembrandt Q. Einstein · Post by **Rembrandt Q. Einstein** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:58 pm

I hope to god you were being sarcastic with that last remark Bjarni, as your sarcasm levels seem have blown my detector.

elroy · Post by **elroy** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:06 pm

It's a damn shame when the extremists' interpretation of Islam is the one people see as the accepted interpretation. Still another reason to educate.. I sound like a broken record eh ?

Bjarni Herjolfsson · Post by **Bjarni Herjolfsson** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:08 pm

We will call it verbal irony.

randomperson2 · Post by **randomperson2** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:04 am

How bout this, I am a catholic, catholicism is a christian religion, in fact it is the source from which all other christian religions spawned. It is not as simple as jesus being god. He is himself a seperate entity. Jesus is not only the son of god, but is himself divine. Both, seperate and also part of the whole.

randomperson2 · Post by **randomperson2** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:35 am

Catholiism from the 16th century is very different than it is now, any comparison would be completle irrelvent

randomperson2 · Post by **randomperson2** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:17 am

As for the old testement, that is not the basis of christianity, during that time we were all Jews, the break came with the birth of Jesus

CyberEd · Post by **CyberEd** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:04 pm

jews do not believe jesus was a prophet - he is seen as an important leader

Imperator Severn · Post by **Imperator Severn** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:36 pm

As for the old testement, that is not the basis of christianity, during that time we were all Jews, the break came with the birth of Jesus

During that time I was a half-hearted member of the civic religion, mostly for political reasons.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:25 pm

No, Bin Laden isn't even a Muslim. Well, if you listen to Bjarni.

Spongiform · Post by **Spongiform** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:38 am

ay- thee- isst.

Posted Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:40 am:

Not only that but I'm a tree-hugging sissy liberal who lives in the white-ass suburbs of possibly the most liberal city in the country, often described as being filled with tree-worshipping jewish pornographers or something like that.

Whee.

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:17 am

[quote="CyberEd";p="403325"]do you think he'd be less of a kook ?[/quote]
Yes.

Spongiform · Post by **Spongiform** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:03 am

[quote="Spongiform";p="402768"]ay- thee- isst.

Posted Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:40 am:

Not only that but I'm a tree-hugging sissy liberal who lives in the white-ass suburbs of possibly the most liberal city in the country, often described as being filled with tree-worshipping jewish pornographers or something like that.

Whee.[/quote]

[quote="Deacon";p="402792"]Spongiform, where's that?
[/quote]

New York City.

amlthrawn · Post by **amlthrawn** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:13 am

This whole thread is bordering on a move to S&P... maybe it would be best to move this current discussion there?

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